On the Seaside mailing list, there were and are violent arguments against this blog. Here is what I answered to one of them about the mechanics of a community:
I fully understand you:
There is finally somebody daring to frankly criticise the gods of Seaside in very open words and with some good arguments and he is not willing to make the Kowtow in front of the Seaside emperors!
That's an unexcusable sin!
But as long as somebody refuses to document their work, it's extremely hard for me to take them seriously. There has never been any excuse or confession by the authors that it was/is a great mistake not to document.
If they were saying clearly: If you want to understand Seaside then you must hire me, it'd be fine for me. But I hate lies and dissimulations.
Instead of writing many posts on the mailing list, they should rather make their homework and properly document Seaside. Or openly charge for it. Fair enough!
Just one example concerning this:
"Technically I don't share your view about any of the problems you mention as "massive problems"."
Even if you don't consider my issues "massive" why don't you at least admit that I am making some serious points?!
Or don't you want to be blamed like some other writer on the mailing list who was immediately corrected for showing some understanding for my points?! He was made shut-up.
This is why I am getting discrete emails from people who partially or even essentially agree but who don't want to expose themselves opposing openly to this "community".
We have this typical community situation:
You all stick together because I am disturbing your circles. I am standing in your sun while you are the Diogenes in the barrel who says: "Go our of my sun".
I am most constructive on my blog. Why don't you join in?! Could be anonymous so that you won't get beaten by the others of this community.
You - and everybody else - are welcome!
Greetings from Mr. Cucumber
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Hey, I'm using some of your terminology, if you don't mind.
ReplyDeleteThe bullshit concentration in this blog is high above standard.
"gods of Seaside", "Seaside emperors" - bullshit. There are no such entities. You're having some mental problem there; I guess you are (or have been) developing some kind of paranoia expressing itself in a strong tendency towards creating conspiracy theories that you can't hold back. I suggest you go see a shrink about this.
"I hate lies and dissimulations" - bullshit. You're dissimulating your name, pal. I suggest you take a break and perform some thinking about yourself.
"He was made shut-up" - bullshit. No one is easily shut up on a mailing list. Were it that easy, you'd not post there any more. I suggest you learn something about mailing list moderation strategies, and about which mailing lists are in fact moderated.
"discrete emails" - bullshit. Prove it. Anyone can claim anything. You claim to have 10 years of experience as a software development team leader. I don't buy it. I suggest you give some evidence.
"You all stick together because I am disturbing your circles" - bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. First off, the Seaside "community" is quite diverse, there is not much sticking together going on. I suggest you learn some more about the Seaside community and the different interests therein. Next, we don't all stick together - didn't you write yourself that someone was "made shut-up" because they wouldn't agree with the rest? That's not exactly "all stick[ing] together", right? I suggest you do some reading-up in logic (as you seem to have a certain craving for ancient Greek philosophers, reading those would be a good start). Finally, you're not disturbing anyone's circles. You're simply not important to do that. You're just a minor annoyance that will go away sooner or later, quite possibly moaning about a community's not willing to understand or adopt your glorious insights.
"I am most constructive on my blog" - bullshit. Crazy bullshit, man. This is beyond words.
What are you? A trolling software, and is this some kind of Turing test? Or are you just some "little idiot" with a German web domain?
... and it is quite symptomatic that you, the advocate of free speech and debunker of political correctness, moderate the comments to your blog.
ReplyDeleteLet me guess: anything you don't like won't be published, out here, in public, as you yourself once put it. And you claim you want to have an open discussion, free of the limits imposed by political correctness conventions?
You are not at all credible. You are a sorry example of a narcissist. Knowledgeable you may be, but you are not worth listening to, you "little idiot".
@last post saying:
ReplyDeleteand it is quite symptomatic that you, the advocate of free speech and debunker of political correctness, moderate the comments to your blog.
I do not moderate them, I comment some of them. Perhaps you are not aware of the difference?!
The Smalltalk blogger
Yeah, right.
ReplyDeleteThen why does it say that my comment will be visible once approved?
ReplyDeleteIn German one says: "The beaten dogs are the loudest in howling"
ReplyDeleteThe Smalltalk blogger
... so who beat you?
ReplyDelete(still moderated, pal, you're not getting any closer to being credible)
ReplyDeleteThe conscious or unconscious selection of Leaders and their defense at all costs is a normal (even if utterly repugnant, vile and disgusting) part of every community. I've been in quite a few and I've observed this behaviour in nearly all of them. The Creators always, ALWAYS get defended.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of programmers, no community of programmers can ever be diverse enough to avoid appointing gods. Wiki wiki (c2) wasn't. It's because programmers are on the whole nothing but mindless robots incapable of genuinely original thought. What's worse, the overwhelming majority LIKE this status quo.
Also, in the case of programmers, the Creator is almost always going to be a member of the community. This creates incestuous inbreeding, up to and including mutated deformed offspring.